There has always been a certain amount of confusion between the Boleyn sisters at this period of their lives, and doubt over their dates of birth. 2. The BBC is not responsible for the content of external sites. Mary Boleyn enjoyed a royal fling with Henry VIII before her younger sister Anne moved into the limelight. However, if you are a Tudor fan who insists on accuracy, you may not like this book. In fact the description in Gregory far outweighed anything described at the time and is similar to the ridiculous description of John Rous of the birth of King Richard iii, which he was paid to write as a piece of Tudor nonsense. Anne had returned to England at the end of 1521, but the marriage planned for her with one of her Irish cousins had fallen through and her own unauthorised romance with Henry Percy, the Earl of Northumberland's heir, had been blighted by Cardinal Wolsey, so that in the mid-1520s she was still unspoken for. Please answer - only if you are positive about the information your providing! -> her scarf True False. True False. Yes, but there is no evidence to say that they definitely were. Still the books have to have a title. "The Other Boleyn Girl" is narrated by Mary Boleyn, the sister of the famous Anne. It’s good of you to visit my blog.“Could George Boleyn and the other accused have been lovers? Search for: Introduction. And I believe verily ... he would not forsake me to be a king.'. She would not risk her immortal soul to sleep with her brother and have his children, even if she was desperate. By Alison Plowden George is really portrayed in a terrible manner, his wife is the woman who betrayed her homosexual husband and Jane Boleyn has suffered the destruction of her own reputation because of the nonsense put forward by PG and this is all held as true because PG says it is. Carey was a younger son without land or fortune, and remained dependent on casual royal bounty in the shape of keeperships, stewardships and the occasional grant of a manor. Is her version of Anne Boleyn’s marriage to Henry VIII inaccurate? I thought that this scene would be the most interesting to recreate because Queen Katherine is usually shown as stern and unfeeling, and this shows that she actually has feelings and loves Henry, even though he is not exactly "faithful." As a drama the Other Boleyn Girl is fantastic. Anne was executed several years later on charges of adultery). Read more. The work of Professor Warnicke is one theory among many others on the causes behind the fall of Anne Boleyn, which was swift and brutal, but it isn’t backed by most of the contemporary evidence. Even the supposedly sickly sweet Jane Seymour was, in reality, a sly schemer who was more than happy to sit on the king’s lap and canoodle with him while her mistress was recovering from a truly hideous childbirth that apparently left her in “peril of her life”. The Other Boleyn Girl. Anne Boleyn, c. 1533, from the drawing by Hans Holbein The Beaufort symbol is the portcullus and it is believed they had a rose of some description somewhere in their emblems. So how she was the White Queen is anyone’s guess. You say: “Could George Boleyn and the other accused have been lovers? I can watch the Other Boleyn Girl, the TV version is best, because it’s the same as watching Shakespeare, I can criticise it afterwards. Therefore, the description of the characters is according to the way she perceives them. I would suggest people look at the videos and the articles on this site and the sources which are available in order to discover the real Anne and Mary Boleyn and their families true reputations. We know the work is a novel loosely based on some facts but nevertheless an entertaining read for all that. She begged Cromwell to intercede for her with her father and mother, her uncle Norfolk and her brother. The House of Lancaster of whom Tudor is an illegitimate offshoot, via the House of Beaufort, didn’t have a red rose as its symbolic emblems. There are also many arguments among historians that Mary was older than Anne. Put yourself in the place of your subjects. I would like to add one more example of Anne’s love for her daughter: she actually wanted to nurse Elizabeth herself which of course as queen she would not be allowed to do. All very nice but pure fantasy, although the fictional story is here telling us that our heroin who rejected a life of wealth and excess at Court does better than her overly ambitious siblings and finds happiness in the simple life with the man she loved in the country. Required fields are marked *, This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. 3. As for the White Rose, the House of York did adopt this as a wider symbol and white roses pop up everywhere a member of the House went. Or is it fake and made up for the movie?  © We also then see a determined Mary at the end who walked into a poorly guarded palace, without being challenged, straight into the royal nursery, where Elizabeth is alone with their own mother, Lady Elizabeth Boleyn and demands that the child is handed into her care. I don’t agree with Retha Warnicke’s whole sexual heresy theory, I just don’t see the evidence for it at all, so we’ll have to agree to disagree on that. I’m gonna have to watch my DVD again before I watch your video. That is were the series differs from PG and her novels, history isn’t being rewritten, it’s being turned into entertainment for the brain dead over sexed public. I could say that Henry VIII was gay, but there’s no evidence that he was, and just because people could have illicit affairs, doesn’t mean that particular people did. Good! Her new husband was one William Stafford, another member of the royal entourage and another younger son without money or land. Nothing could be further than the truth, but even though this is fiction, the number of people who believe this nonsense is staggering. He, too, made a useful marriage - to Lady Elizabeth Howard, daughter of the second Duke of Norfolk - a marriage that brought him three surviving children, George, Mary and Anne. She wasn’t sent to France because she slept with people and tricked Henry Percy into her bed as in the Other Boleyn Girl. You may have living decendants then and those lies about you could effect them. -> Princess Elizabeth True False. Henry did seek advice on how to end his marriage by two canon law experts but we don’t know the full details so we cannot assume it had anything to do with witchcraft but he may have again being looking at the convenient fact that he had slept with two sisters. Tewkesbury Abbey is absolutely covered in them because of the victory of Edward iv there in 1471. Thomas Boleyn may well have reflected on how much better these things were managed in France, where the maitresse en titre was a recognised public figure, wielding influence and patronage. Your email address will not be published. Yes, I think she could have. I too loved The Tudors and the recreation of the Chateau Vert pageant I thought was spectacular, with the gorgeous displays and the silver and gold dresses Anne and the other ladies wore, the scene where Francois threw Henry was good too in the Field of the cloth of Gold as that did happen and like men when they get hot under the collar, they nearly came to blows, Claude and Katherine had to calm their men down, yes I agree you can enjoy it as drama, if you dont take it seriously as we know they did contort the facts somewhat, it was a bit like a 16th c Dynasty tv series, with fighting and sex scenes and men jostling for power, Alison Weit herself mentioned it was good drama so I think she must have watched it and enjoyed it, but she said the costumes were all wrong, they were historically inaccurate, I did not like Mary and Margaret being mixed up either and I think all the characters were far more attractive then the actual people they portrayed, Jane Seymour was a very pretty blonde and she was quite plain in real life, and Mary Tudor was dark haired in the series yet she was a red head and the actress who played her mother Katherinewas rather tall and thin, yet the real Katherine was small in stature, auburn haired and very fair, as Henry V111 was not dark like Meyers who played him, but very fair with red hair which he passed onto his two daughters, we all know Henry V111 was a colossal sized red head with a beard at least in his older years, yet all the way through Meyers was trim and athletic but I did find Meyers was brilliant in his role, he had a terrific temper and charisma, he showed no remorse when Richard Rous was boiled to death nor at the beheading of his wives, I must add I thought Annes execution scene was terrific and very poignant, as it showed Anne looking back into the past when she was playing in the gardens with her father and brother, the little girl who played her was so cute, the moment the sword struck a flight of birds took off and Annes spirit was once more back in the garden of her childhood, the scene in Wolf Hall was very good to, there was a gasp in the crowd when the executioner drew his great sword from under the straw, and that possibiy happened in real life, it must have been harrowing to watch, a woman in her early thirties about to die a horrific death, and it was also unprecedented as no King had ever sent his queen to her death in history before, I did not like the execution scene in The Other Boleyn Girl as though I do like Natalie Portman, she showed her as edgy nervous not speaking fluently as Anne actually did, and though we know the poor woman must have been frightened the eye witness accounts say she conducted herself well on the scaffold, Portman was just acting how she was told to so that’s no fault of hers, but I thought that bit was a very real let down to the movie and then the daft bit where Mary was watching in the crowds, she was no doubt with her husband in the country with her children, or maybe she was with her parents consoling each other on that dreadful day, I cannot see any member of that family going along and witnessing the death of Anne, they would find it way too awful, the Boleyns were a broken family and why would they wish to see her death anyway? In any event her work wasn’t intended as a hatchet job with the result of destroying the reputation of Anne Boleyn and her family all over again. He in fact, alongside Edward Hall and three other accounts says the baby was about four months in the womb, looking male and was a fair child, in other words a normal healthy child. Mary became the mistress of the King and it ended long before Anne came to marry Henry VII. There is none really except she is spot on with Annes overweening ambition, but we have to remember she was only like that when she agreed to marry the King, not before as we know she did her best to avoid him, not trap him, Anne was no scheming Jezebel she was not popular with the queens supporters understandably, but her biographers from the earliest, Thomas Wyatts grandson through to Agnes Strickland down to the plethora of historians we have today, Claire among them, all agree she was not interested in Henry V111 she may have loved Henry Percy and could well have been very upset when their tryst was discovered and they were seperated, sources tell us she was angry and nursed a deep hatred for the cardinal who she ever said if it was in her power she would cause him as much discomfort as he had done her, he had referred to her as a foolish girl and she must have felt deeply insulted, but poor Percy had come of far worse, he had rebuked him quite harshly in front of his household which had made him weep, he was then dragged back up north by his irate father and later married the Earl of Shrewsburys daughter, neither Percy nor his wife loved each other and we can safely assume had he been allowed to marry Anne they could well have been very happy together, but domestic bliss was not for Percy or for his old love either, and both were fated to die young, Gregory’s book then has us seeing Anne as flirting with Henry and doing all in her power to captivate him her goal being queen, I believe the motion of becoming his queen was the furthest from her mind, she knew high born influential women only married kings, daughters of kings usually foreign and who could advance their countries politically, and as we all know these betrothals were usually planned in infancy, how would Anne ambitious and strong minded and brave as she was, ever be so arrogant as to think she could ever become Henrys queen? Put your knowledge to the test. However, whatever advice Henry received, he certainly didn’t act upon it and there is evidence that he was reconciled to Anne during Lent 1536. I won’t be watching the White Princess again or the Spanish Princess. “The Other Boleyn Girl” movie opens with Mary just about to marry William Carey and worrying about her wedding night because she is a virgin – not true! Gregory chose to include the most outlandish speculations to make her book generate lots of interest for people who don’t know the real history. I was most pissed off that the charges against Anne Boleyn (witchcraft, adultery and incest with her brother), which all historians have long-since considered false, were actually treated as real and truthful. (Mary Boleyn 2). However, I’d have to disagree with your point about Mary being neglected. Where did you come across that? The myth of the White Rose and Red Rose becoming one was pure propaganda and clever propaganda as a new emblem was born for the House of Tudor to symbolise the marriage of Elizabeth of York and Henry Tudor. The main problem I have isn’t with the film which is of course fiction and Claire has done several fine articles on this and we all know it’s fictional, but with the fact that Philippa Gregory actually does believe Anne slept with her brother and promoted this idea as if it was fact. As a godly Protestant prince, with all the serious and devout nature of the real Charles, he would have been assured of considerable support in Britain. Yes, it is fiction but the novel is far worse than the film and it really is shocking in places. If Ms. Gregory would just admit that she fiddles with the facts to tell a good story I would have no problem. Mary returned to England before Anne, though we don't know exactly when, and brought with her a colourful reputation for wanton behaviour. The Boleyns were now well on their way up the social ladder and William's second son, Thomas, came to court to make his way in the royal service, one of the new men for the new Tudor dynasty. I actually like the White Queen which combined her Cousins War series and was well done. There is a lot discussion about whether Mary was the elder Boleyn or the younger. She might have been regularly called a whore because she had replaced Queen Katherine of Aragon, but that is the lot of a woman who goes out with a married man, sadly even today. 1. So I saw the movie 'The Other Boleyn Girl' the other night and I have become obsessed with it! Yes, but there is no evidence to say that they definitely were”, so why should we go with Retha Warnicke’s view that they were. “The Other Boleyn Girl” has brought Anne Boleyn and Mary Boleyn’s stories to life for many people, and provoked an interest in Tudor history, but it has also caused a bit of confusion with some readers not knowing which bits of the story are accurate and which are fictional. I find it strange Gregory’s novels are made into films and she must make plenty of money out of which, basically is sheer nonsense. Before Gregory published her book, Karen Harper had brought Mary’s story to life in her novel “The Last Boleyn”, so she hadn’t been neglected anyway, and for a woman we know very little about, she’s had quite a few biographies written and has featured heavily in novels and on the screen since. Whoever I was and whoever you were, I would know you at once for my true love.” ― Philippa Gregory, The Other Boleyn Girl tags: love, romance If the Other Boleyn Girl was written by the bard William Shakespeare, it would be seen as nothing more than brilliant entertainment. Of course, noblewomen and queens could absolutely not do this because of the double standard. The Six Wives of Henry VIII by Antonia Fraser (Weidenfeld & Nicolson, 1992), The Rise and Fall of Anne Boleyn by RM Warnicke (Cambridge University Press, l989), Tudor Women - Queens and Commoners by Alison Plowden (Sutton Publishing, 2002), Anne Boleyn by Hester Chapman (Jonathan Cape, 1974), Anne Boleyn by EW Ives (Oxford University Press, 1986). It is believed Walter Scott probably used the term, just as Shakespeare used the term “roses both red and white ‘ and another myth was born. The rumour that Henry was the king's son appears to have been founded on no more than the recollection of John Hales, vicar of Isleworth, who some ten years after the child was born remarked that a Brigettine monk from Sion had once showed him 'young Master Carey' saying he was the king's bastard. The rise of the family of Mary Boleyn, and of her sister Anne, future wife of Henry VIII, followed a classic pattern. Yes, Professor Warnicke wasn’t too keen on her work being exploited in the way it was by PG and TOBG and it is only in this novel and film that Anne and George have a sexual encounter. How else did a knight and his family advance in life but through service at the Royal Court? Mary Boleyn Facts: Who was Mary Boleyn? It was an ambitious, power-hungry age, in which noble families ferociously battled for wealth and power. He used a dragon banner. Not that we should believe George Wyatt in everything either who had every reason to write in Anne’s favour, but there is actually no contemporary mention of a deformed child. Although it's based on actual people and events in Tudor England, Gregory took A … What article of clothing does Mary give Henry, only to be saddened when he carelessly drops it? By this time Anne was within sight of her goal. I have not read the book and have no plans to. Here here BQ. 'I dare not write to them, they are so cruel against us.' He played a leading part in suppressing the Northern Rising of 1569, and was rewarded with a personal note of thanks from his sovereign lady, signed 'Your loving kinswoman, Elizabeth R'. Anne and Mary weren't really close at all. Mary definitely didn’t take charge of Elizabeth and poor Elizabeth Boleyn would already have retired to Hever where she and Thomas remained to mourn their children for at least the next two months. What is particularly annoying is that most of the ideas put forward by PG have previously been debunked by proper historians. History has devised names for wars because we have to name a domestic conflict or long foreign war something in order to distinguish the period from others. As a drama it is fine, it is fiction, you watch knowing this and move on. 1. THE OTHER BOLEYN GIRL deals with a lot of English history in a short running time. Your email address will not be published. This turned out to be just as well, for they were thus able to escape any involvement in the witch-hunt surrounding the eventual disgrace, trial and execution of both Anne and her brother George, as well as the five other young men in their circle. “Ridiculous modern labels” – are you really sure you want to go there? That is the real danger of films like this, people actually take them too seriously. Mary is shown as very compassionate, compared to Anne, who I actually wanted to slap at times, because she puts herself in danger and goes to Henry to plead for her sister’s life, only to be told not to come to Court again as she waited for a last minute reprieve on behalf of Anne. Did Anne Boleyn steal Henry Carey from Mary Boleyn? Suggested birth dates for Anne vary between 150l and 1507, and although it is most likely that Mary was the elder of the two, there may have been no more than twelve months between them. Then there are later PG adaptations which are really awful and did have me screaming after 5 minutes. R12 is quite stunningly stupid. Gregory’s novel was a work of fiction, a piece of art, and it stands alongside “Wolf Hall” and “The Tudors” as a powerful piece of modern media that captures our twenty-first ideas about the Tudor dynasty and how we think they “must” have been. Thank you Claire. 2. I know you’re a big fan of it. I am not knocking her or her books, but people need to read them with a healthy pinch of salt and ask genuine questions, not use them as a reference guide for history. We’ve had conversations in the past about PG so you know I agree with absolutely every word of what you say. Jane is an unsavoury character in “Bring Up the Bodies”, just as she is in “The Other Boleyn Girl”. “I would know you anywhere for my true love. In Gregory’s The Other Boleyn Girl, readers are persuaded to accept the charges of Anne Boleyn as true: “she is certainly guilty of seducing the king with bawdy behaviour. She was not stupid or ignorant, Katherine of Aragon was Henrys consort she had been thus for twenty years, she had powerful allies in Spain the country of her birth and in her nephew the emperor Charles V, why does Gregory think she thought the King of England would replace her with mistress Anne Boleyn a mere knights daughter and one of her own ladies in waiting, Gregory says her works are just fiction and it is plain to us that if the reader wishes to know Annes real story to read a biography of her, Gregory cannot be blamed if people take her work as the gospel truth, there have been many writers of historical fiction, Plaidy and Lofts among them, Rosemary Hawley Jarman, these early writers are all dead but I feel they had the edge on Gregory, and more telling their books were never so defamatory towards Anne and her family, the deformed foetus nonsense which Gregory says was inspired by Warnickes theory, which Warnicke herself denies, I do find Warnickes theory strange as iv said many a time before along with Bq and Michael, as she uses her source of info from Nicholas Sander who was just mud slinging at Elizabeth 1st, and of course Anne came in for her fair share, it was Chapyus who although was the Boleyns enemy, provided us with a lot of information of the court of Henry V111, most of which is very reliable, all he said about the birth of Annes last child was it had the appearance of a male nothing more, heartbreakingly sad and so tragic for his mother whose fate rested on his poor little life, Gregory says she believes this child was the result of an incestous union between Anne and George, this she actually believes as well as putting it in her book, in the documentary about Anne she said she believes she was ruthless to sleep with her own brother, she’s entitled to her view but I find that very repulsive as many a normal person would, and going rather into the realms of the depraved and the corrupt way of thinking, Anne was a normal healthy heterosexual woman, there is no evidence that George was not either and she fails to take into account his character as well, does she honestly think this man who was a normal intelligent person married happily or not, would agree to copulating with his own sister contrary to the laws of man and nature, a man known for his deeply religious views on reform like his sister and many of their friends, something which they both knew they would burn in everlasting hell for? The Other Boleyn Girl far exceeded my expectations, having seen the film of the same name, I wondered what to expect from the book. I am also relates to Bettie wtsn n Mary Sheldon n Edward Anne n godels. Thus Shakespeare used the terms of the unity of the red and white roses and his Tudor and Stuart Royal audiences were pleased. If PG invented something, she should state I believe this but most others do not. Thomas and Elizabeth were well and truly moving up the power ladder before Anne and Mary made their debut at the English or French Courts. Of course. However, if you are a Tudor fan who insists on accuracy, you may not like this book. Anne Boleyn: The Other Boleyn Girl & The Tudors; Search. Jane Boleyn’s confession – Before her execution in 1542, Jane Boleyn (Lady Rochford), George Boleyn’s wife, confessed to lying when she falsely accused George and Anne of incest.  © I am not too fussy when it comes just to just seeing history as entertaining, but when long debunked myths are claimed as fact, that really gets my goat. Good luck — the Stickman is counting on you! Philippa Gregory depicts Mary as the younger Boleyn, which recent studies and theories believe is TRUE. Alison Plowden reveals the little-known story of a fascinating figure. Her own emblems were some kind of pink carnations and a Talbot dog. WIN. Yes, Gregory’s work used Warnicke’s book, and I think that Warnicke was quite unhappy as to the result. I was not disappointed. She doesn’t present this nonsense which no historian worth their salt would endorse, as if it is fiction and her own theory, but as if this was how it happened. 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